by Dr Fredric Coe | Oct 28, 2016 | For Doctors, For Patients, For Scientists | 58 comments
A Remarkable Concordance
From 1980 to now the US government has published diet recommendations for the American people.Gradually and over time these have become quantitative and specify amounts of critical nutrients such as calcium, sodium, refined sugar, protein, and potassium – as alkaline anions in mainly fruits and vegetables. The goals are reduction ofosteoporosis, hypertension, obesity, and diabetes. I shall call this the IdealUS Diet.
Surprisingly, though aimed at stone prevention and management of bone disease from idiopathic hypercalciuria,decades of kidney stone research have identifiedprecisely the same diet. Even more surprising, the Diet Against Systolic Hypertension (DASH) diet resemblesthe current Recommended US Diet, and stone researchers have found a reduced risk of stone disease in people who eat ‘DASH – Like’ diets.
Is it possible we have come upon the Ur diet?
Research on three different problems – kidney stones, systolic hypertension, and healthy eating all end up with the same basic diet plan; is that plan the solution to an ancient riddle?
Ur diet or not, experts advise all Americans, hypertensive or not to eat the ideal stone prevention diet.Any stone patient can be advised to eatit, after even a single stone. You do not even need a stone.
Hereis the science that says any stone former is well off eating this remarkable diet.
Theother articles on the diet and the article on treatment of idiopathic calcium stone formersare good additions.
‘Still Life with Cheeses’, Floris Claesz Van Dijck, 1610, shows how healthy diets are not so modern. Note the fruits. The painter was well known for banquet still life paintings in which he pioneered.
SharedFeaturesof the Kidney Stone and IdealUS Diets
The Principle Components
In the table, under the middle heading ‘TREATMENT’, ‘high’ and ‘low’ refer to changes from what is common now in the US but considered ideal as a future norm.
For the general health of the US nation, high calcium diet helps maintain bone mineral; low sodium intake and high potassium intake reduce blood pressure; low refined sugar helps stave off obesity and diabetes. A reasonable range of protein intake maintains nitrogen balance without imposing unneeded calories. Apart from potassium, fruits and vegetables provide high nutrient value with modest calorie costs.
Because idiopathic hypercalciuria causes negative bone mineral balance at present calcium intakes, high calcium diet can protect against fractures.
High calcium diet reduces absorption of diet oxalate so restriction of intake can be less onerous.
Low sodium intake reduces urine calcium, and also aids in achieving bone mineral uptake.
Refined sugar causes spikes of high urine calcium excretion that are best avoided.
Excessive protein intake raises urine calcium.
Diet potassium from fruits and vegetables is mainly potassium with organic anions that can be metabolized to bicarbonate and therefore increase urine citrate.
Oxalate and Fluids
Oxalate is important only for kidney stones but the healthy diet helps because high calcium intake lowers oxalate absorption. Rather than begin with cumbersome food oxalate lists I suggest patients raise their calcium intakes and then get a new 24 hour urine collection. Often urine oxalate will no longerpose stone risk. If it doesdespite high calcium intake and timing of high calcium foods or calcium supplements with meals, then is time enough for the lists.
I am quite the opposite about fluids. Any stone former is wise to achieve 2.5 liters of urine volume daily, which usually means 3 liters of intake. Nothing can more precisely undo the urine supersaturation kidneys achieve by water conservation than fluids enough to obviate a need for them to do it.
Components Secondary to Stone Prevention
The US diet plan is rich in fruits and vegetables as a way of controlling calorie and fat intake, and offering alternatives to high sugar desserts.The diet also emphasizes reduced fat intake and especially saturated fat, limitations that are irrelevant to stone prevention.
But Iadvocate for using the intact diet as opposed to only those aspects of it related to stone prevention. It is a coherent plan of nutrition whosestructure that may help people create and maintaindesirable eating habits.
High Calcium Intake
Let me again emphasize: ‘High’ and ‘low’ in what follows compare the desired diet to what is the common pattern right now in the US.
IH Bone Disease
Stone formers fracture at abnormal rates.Amongpeople living in Rochester, Minnesota, the cumulative incidence of vertebral fractures inpeople withstones (irregular line) exceeds the rate offractures in the entire population (the smooth line) between 1950 and 1974.Hip and forearm did not fracture excessively.
One can find tworeasons for such fractures. The first is idiopathic hypercalciuria.The second is self imposed or iatrogenic low calcium intake in hopes of stone prevention.The US health recommendations for 1000 to 1,200 mg of diet calcium daily arise from massive research showing such diets help preventbone disease in large populations. It will help stone formers especially, because people with IH cannot maintain neutral bone calcium balance as well as average unselected people, at least in part because of inefficient renal calcium conservation.
On the graph to the right those with IH are in red, those with normal urine calcium are in blue. ‘IH’ here is the research criterion of the upper 90th or 95th percentileof normal, so the urine calcium of the IH cases would approximate 250 and 300 mg of urine calcium daily for women and men, respectively.Even at calcium intakes of 1,200 mg/day the average calcium retention (red line) of those with IH thus defined barely reaches 0 – stable bone mineral content.
The US recommendations will hardly suffice for the most marked hypercalciuria and the lower calcium intakes in present use have the potential to cause bone mineral loss and eventual fractures.
Reduction of Urine Oxalate
Urine oxalate can rise because of genetic defects or bowel disease, which each have their own special place in stone prevention. But most people with stones have urine oxalate excretions dominated by diet oxalate content and intestinal oxalate absorption.
This latter is dependent on diet calcium.In the graph to the left, diet calcium is on the x axis and urine oxalate on the y axis. Each point represents values from trial data in which diet calcium was altered and urine oxalate measured. Oxalate intake varied from 200 to 50 mg/d and the symbol size reflects it. The data for the trials are available from the main article I wrote about this topic. The names are those of the principalinvestigators.
As diet calcium increases, urine oxalate falls more or less independent of oxalate intake. At 1,200 mg, most points are between 25 and 35 mg/d.
This does not mean that we no longer need to be concerned with diet oxalate. But it does mean that the recommended US diet calcium intake of 1,200 mg/d lessens the needed stringency.
In the small inset box, Hess makes this point with considerable drama. He gave people 2,000 mg/d of oxalate, a shocking amount, with 1,200 mg/d of diet calcium. Despite the drastic diet oxalate excess, urine oxalate was only 80 mg/d – too high of course, but consider the intake. He raised the calcium intake to near 4,000 mg and brought the urine oxalate down to near 30 mg/d. This is a powerful demonstration of how diet calcium can more or less balance diet oxalate.
From the graph, we can say that at about 1,200 mg/d diet calcium, diet oxalate can be in the range of 100 to 200 mg/d which is not very restricted.The exact relationship between urine oxalate and diet oxalate on this 1,200 mg/d diet might well be quantified by another trial, which could be of moderate duration.
Low Sodium Diet
Lowers Urine Calcium
One would be correct in saying that high diet calcium will increase urine calcium butthe lower sodium content of the kidney stone diet will lower urine calcium and permit high diet calcium that protects bone and lowers urine oxalate.
Urine calcium varies with urine sodium in normal people – the red circles and triangles on the graph to the right. But the variation is much more marked for people with IH (blue circles and triangles) as defined by 95th percentiles as mentioned above. Circles denote prospective trials in which diet sodium was deliberately varied, triangles observational data. The non parametric ellipses contain 66% of the data.
Because the difference between IH and normal is in the slope, as diet sodium falls and lowers urine sodium – more or less, urine sodium is diet sodium on average – the two curves come together.A formal analysis of the slope difference is in the detailed article that presents these data.
At the US diet upper boundary of 100 mEq/d(2,300 mg/d) diet sodium, urine calcium in IH begins to overlap in part with normals. At what has been called optimal (65 mEq/d or 1,500 mg/d) diet sodium, the overlap is even better.
A single but well done trial of 1,200 mg calcium and 50 meq/d sodium (they actually ate about 120 mEq/d on average) was much more effective in preventing stones than was a low calcium high sodium diet–400 mg/d calcium and uncontrolled sodium which was about 200 mEq – a diet that many people may be eating in the US today. More to the point, the urine calcium excretion of those eating 400 mg calcium and 200 mEq of sodium was the same as those eating 1,200 mg of calcium and 120 mEq of sodium. All of the subjects were males with calcium oxalate stones and IH. This trial is detailed in another article.
Improves Bone Mineral Balance
To date no trial has tested treatment of IH bone disease, but this one trial concerned menopausal osteoporosis and used high calcium low sodium diet with successful outcomes.
Each of the subjects ate in random order each of high and low calcium and sodium diets, and total bone mineral balance was measured. The time on each diet was long enough to get reliable data.
Calcium absorbed (leftmost bar (blue) for each diet type) was highest on the two high calcium diets (diet types are along the horizontal axis). Loss of calcium in stool and urine (second and third bars from the left (red and gray, respectively) over each diet type) were lowered by low sodium diet (second group of bars from the left over the ‘CA HIGH NA LOW’ caption), and that was the only diet thatproduced positive balance – black bar above the horizontal dashed line.
Of interest, the high diet calcium was not achieved entirely with foods. Supplemental calcium was used, eaten during the course of the meals. This means for those who cannot get in enough calcium from food it is not unreasonable to use supplements, but they must be taken directly with the meals, not in between or fasting.
Also note that high calcium with high sodium (first block of four bars) did not achieve positive bone balance, so it is not enough to just add calcium. One needs the two diet factors together. This is what the US diet plan attempts to accomplish.
Low Refined Sugar
We have no trial, but we do have the striking effect of sugars to produce a transient but lofty spike in urine calcium.
Normal people given 100 gm of glucose or sucrose in water increased their urine calcium – the periods numbered below the horizontal line are 20 minutes each so the increase is rapid.
Patients with IH were higher before and higher after the sugar loads. Their family members were the same, because IH is hereditary.
To date no trial has focused on reduced refined sugar per se, nor will this happen. Trials tend toward monotony, the test of things one by one, and sugar is probably not by itself enough of a factor to alter stone formation. But is has its effects, and there is no reason to provoke spikes of urine calcium loss. They will cause a transient rise in supersaturation. Also, since there is no calcium in the sugar drinks the sudden calcium loss in the urine is probably from bone.
Moderate Protein Intake
The US protein intake recommendations appear to be at the lower end of the commonly mentioned 0.8 – 1 gm/kg/d. In the appendices that quantify intakes values plateau at 0.8 mg/kg/d.
For stone formers, high protein intakes will indeed increase urine calcium, a matter of no dispute.
The blue points on this graph are from selected balance experiments of considerable duration. The red points are from shorter experiments. They are detailed in the original article.
The main point is that as one increments diet protein the protein provokes an acid load via the oxidation of sulfur from methionine and cystine, and thence a change in net acid excretion (NAE). Correlative to that change is an increase in urine calcium.
Some authorities doubt that the acid load per se is essential for the effect. The paired pentagons are from a single but well done experiment in which protein was given with and without sufficient alkali to abolish the acid load yet both protein feedings equally raised urine calcium. Even so, urine calcium rises with protein loads and higher urine calcium can raise stone risk.
Some important authorities have maintained that the acid load from protein adversely affects bone, whereas others of equal calibre deny this. Rather than pursue the debate here, I refer those interested to the linked primary article on this site.
The US diet proposes large amounts of fruits and vegetables that provide more alkali than we presently get, and that alkali may well offset the acid load from protein. Likewise, the diet asks for moderation of diet protein, so the urine calcium effects will be correspondingly moderated.
Urine Citrate
Urine citrate responds to net acid base balance, and if the moderated protein intake is combined with high organic anion intake from fruits and vegetables urine citrate may well rise. The US proposed diet aims towarda potassium intake of about 112 mEq/d mainly from fruits and vegetables.
These food sources will provide the potassium mainly associated with organic anions that include citrate and, like citrate, are metabolized. Beingmetabolized in their acid forms,their metabolism produces alkali in the form of bicarbonate will signal the renal citrate transporter to permit more citrate to enter the urine. In other words, the foods will act exactly like potassium citrate given as a medication.
Since our current US potassium intake approximates 60 mEq/d the diet will add about 60 mEq more, or the equivalent of six10 mEq potassium citrate pills. It is precisely this food phenomenon that is exploited in the common idea of drinking lemonade. But lemonade like all fruit juices can be a source of refined sugars depending on the brand, and lemons vary considerably in citrate content. Likewise lemonade becomes monotonous. An altered diet seems far better,
It is possible that the new US diet guidelines, if enacted, will greatly reduce the need for medicinal potassium citrate, with a corresponding fall in cost and unpleasantness of taking the large pills. Although a trial of such a diet for urine citrate increase, would be desirable, it may never take place there being no obvious financial incentives.
When Should Stone Formers Start the Diet?
The Diet is Recommended for Everyone
At the first stone, of course, as it has general health benefits as well as specific and well supported special kidney stone prevention benefits.
More Stones Predicts Poorer Treatment Response
On the vertical axis are the percent relapse rates for the treated arms of the trials, plotted against the average number of pre-treatment stones. The names of the trials correspond to references in the detailed article this figure arises in, which is linked below.
Treatedingle stone formers had an about 10 – 12% relapse rate, ‘Mulit’ refers to my published treatment data that used multiple treatments at once. At best my estimates of pretreatment stone averages are coarse because of limited information in the original studies, so the points may well distribute differently. But the general impression will not likely change with details: More stones seems related to higher relapse despite treatment. The other two ‘Multi’ points are accurate, as is the NaKCit point – details were in the paper.
How Should Stone Formers Pursue the Diet?
Like everyone else in the US, of course. The government website is rich in food portion data and advice about diet change. Our patients can enter it with other Americans and essentially swim with the current.
But stones are a disease we want to treat so it is up to us and those who work with us to help. Jill Harris has already written about this matter, and we hope many more stone experts will begin to consider the reality of how to use the diet effectively. She offers online help with diet management.
Al R.on October 20, 2016 at 7:51 am
Hi Dr. Coe,
Regarding, “Refined sugar causes spikes of high urine calcium excretion. Excessive protein intake raises urine calcium.”
Can you please tell me if you have any thoughts or rules of thumb regarding how eating three larger meals vs. similar food spread more evenly across smaller meals and significant snacks (or say 6 oz of poultry in one meal vs. divided between two) might affect 24 hour supersaturations?
And more importantly, whether spikes following a large meal likely increase actual stone risk more than the 24 hour averages might indicate?
Thanks again, AlReply
Fredric Coe, MDon October 20, 2016 at 5:00 pm
Hi Al, I think spreading out portions seems wiser – but no data. Refined sugar is entirely a pest and we are better off with as little as possible. Sans data one never knows but peaks buried in 24 hour urines may well maintain new stone formation even when the 24 hour averages look reassuring. Fred
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Martin Kenleyon December 23, 2016 at 1:15 am
Apparently saturated fat, and animal protein have a great deal to do with kidney stones per these per reviewed studies: C R Tracy, S Best, A Bagrodia, J R Poindexter, B Adams-Huet, K Sakhaee, N Maalouf, C Y Pak, M S Pearle. Animal protein and the risk of kidney stones: a comparative metabolic study of animal protein sources. J Urol. 2014 Jul;192(1):137-41. doi: 10.1016/j.juro.2014.01.093 and I P Heilberg, D S Goldfarb. Optimum nutrition for kidney stone disease. Adv Chronic Kidney Dis. 2013 Mar;20(2):165-74. doi: 10.1053/j.ackd.2012.12.001.
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Fredric Coe, MDon December 23, 2016 at 5:10 pm
Dear Martin, Thank you for the thoughtful remarks. I know the papers and their authors are friends of mine. I do not exactly share their emphasis and by now they know that. But since you have brought the matter up I will update my treatment of protein and summarize the matter in the article on the site you are commenting on. As for saturated fat, I will reread their work – at best associations will be epidemiological or relate to uric acid stones. I doing my review articles on diet I knew in advance that my disinterest in low protein diet, animal vs plant protein, and fats in general was outre. None of my friends have thought enough of it to speak up in public, so I have decided the matter does not exercise them overly. Much obliged to you. Keep an eye on the site whenever you have some spare moments and you will see the extra materials. Regards, Fred Coe
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Diana Thompsonon January 12, 2017 at 10:48 am
Hi, I am just wondering which calcium supplement would be best to prevent calcium oxalate stones or if it even matters? (Calcium citrate, calcium carbonate, etc)
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Fredric Coe, MDon January 12, 2017 at 7:39 pm
Hi Diana, high diet calcium from food is important for everyone. Stone formers benefit because such a diet lowers urine oxalate and also protects against late life bone fractures. Food is best, but if that is impossible then supplements can be used to make up the total of 1200 mg daily. They should be taken with main meals. Carbonate or citrate are the same. Regards, Fred Coe
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judy marshallon February 6, 2017 at 9:48 am
oh my goodness, so much information. this is my 2nd time with stones. and the pain is so bad–as we all know. now i need to take all this information and figure out just what i should eat. i also have diabeties and acid reflex–so i need to watch what i eat for that. thanks again, will post inf later.
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Fredric Coe, MDon February 7, 2017 at 9:29 am
Hi Judy, Be hopeful and do not become overwhelmed. Here is a nice approach to follow toward prevention. Regards, Fred Coe
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Tiffanyon June 11, 2017 at 11:04 pm
Hello Dr Coe,
I have leaned to live with kidney stones for years now. I have recently been told that sugars may be causing my stones. Also, recently my hip bones have been tender and I think it is related to my kidney stones some how, could there be a correlation?Reply
Fredric Coe, MDon June 14, 2017 at 8:15 pm
Hi Tiffany, Sugars can raise urine calcium and promote stones. Hip tenderness per so has no obvious relationship to stones. But perhaps you might want to have a bone scan to check your bone mineral density. Regards, Fred Coe
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Daniel Fon September 19, 2017 at 3:49 pm
I lift weights at the gym and like to eat protein, especially meat and fish, to help build/ maintain muscle. I am 6′ 2″ 170 pounds at age 65. Your article calls for moderate protein intake. My recent urine oxalate is 81 (over time varies from 46 to 97); SS CaOx is 6.0; pH 6.37. Your article says increased fruits and vegetables may help moderate the protein effects. Should I also cut back on my protein intake? Many thanks.
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Fredric Coe, MDon September 20, 2017 at 8:22 pm
Hi Daniel, massive protein loading will raise urine calcium – a lot and can cause stones. It can raise urine oxalate. Frankly your urine oxalate is so high I wonder if you have a low calcium diet. Check that out by thinking about what you eat. Fruits and veggies will moderate the acid load from protein but not the calcium wasting. Regards, Fred Coe
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Jo Hon September 26, 2017 at 3:24 pm
Hi,
Thank you for the excellent information here.
I’m 50, female, and have just passed one 7.5 mm stone and there’s another of 6 mm still in the kidney.
I’m pescetarian and eat lots of veg, some fruit, no refined sugar or alcohol. I believe the stones have been caused by insufficient calcium (not enough dairy) and too many almonds (three handfuls or so a day — I thought they were a healthy snack). I was reasonably hydrated but could have done much better. Would lots of water (3 l), 1200 mg calcium and no more nuts or spinach be sufficient or do I need to drop to under 50 mg oxalate a day?
Many thanks,
JoReply
Fredric Coe, MDon September 27, 2017 at 11:09 am
Hi Jo H, You need to do the whole diet – high calcium, low sodium etc. The high calcium will drop your oxalate a lot. Diet oxalate can then be adjusted as needed. Very low sodium will protect against the high diet calcium and get it into your bones. Regards, Fred Coe
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vickie hixsonon November 19, 2017 at 8:41 am
Is this where I can ask a question?
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vickie hixsonon November 19, 2017 at 8:57 am
Hi , I have had two lithotripsy done in this past year. I have had 3 – 24 hr urine test. Can you give me any advice on what you think this last test reveals? My stones were Calcium Oxalate. I really tried to lower oxalates, sodium , and take more calcium although I know I need to increase calcium. Lactose intolerant
Urine Volume 2.52
SS CaOx 6.22
Urine Calcium mg/day) 236
Urine Oxalate mg/day) 38
Urine Citrate (mg/day) 942
24 Hour Urine pH 6.902
SS CaP 1.62
SS Uric Acid 0.08
Urine Uric Acid 0.607
(g/da
Thank YouReply
Fredric Coe, MDon November 20, 2017 at 3:13 pm
Hi VIckie, your urine calcium is a bit high, your oxalate is high enough to raise stone risk appreciably, the volume is fine, I see no sodium. You are right: more diet calcium and get your diet sodium as low as possible and then do another 24 hour urine to see where you are at. Be sure your physician approves of that I just said. Regards, Fred Coe
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vickie hixsonon November 22, 2017 at 10:42 am
Thank you so much, I also have high protein at 1.4 , should I try to lower that by not eating as much meat? I was once told to eat more protein, that my diet was more like a vegetarian. My urine sodium says it’s 100.
Thanks
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Fredric Coe, MDon November 22, 2017 at 7:05 pm
Hi Vickie, 1.4 gm/kg/day diet protein is very high and will increase urine calcium. You would do better at 0.8 to 1. The urine sodium is at the US tolerable upper limit. Regards, Fred Coe
vickie hixsonon November 26, 2017 at 10:37 am
Thank you so much, Just one more question. How do I lower the protein levels? Do I just cut back on the amount of meat? Is there a special diet for this?
Again thanks so much for responding back
Fredric Coe, MDon November 26, 2017 at 8:47 pm
Hi Vickie, it is just that simple – keep the protein portions moderate. The article you are writing on links to the US recommended diet website that has pictures of typical food portions as a guide. Regards, Fred Coe
Fredric Coe, MDon November 20, 2017 at 3:11 pm
Hi Vickie, Yes it is. Fred Coe
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Christina Hatcheron August 15, 2018 at 2:28 pm
Hello Dr. Coe, I’m 61 years old and just had my very first bout with stones that led to me having surgery a couple weeks ago and had to keep a stint in for 6wks….. UGH !!! The day I had the stint removed the Urologist told me he was NOT going to have me go through metabolic testing because this being my first episode with stones, that the chances of getting them again are next to nil ?!?! I’m perplexed and TERRIFIED of going through this again !!!! How can I even begin to be proactive ????? I had 5 small brown irregular calculi fragments with one at 6mm that was badly infected and tore up my right ureter. they gave me a sheet of paper that states : 40% calcium oxalate monohydrate, 10% calcium oxalate dihydrate and 50% calcium phosphate ( hydroxy-and carbonate-apatite ) I have tried to find a renal dietitian to help me understand all of this and I can’t find one in my city that deals with stones only the registered dietitian at the CTCA and she said she ONLY deals with stage 4 renal patients diets……. I JUST WANT TO CRY !!!!! PLEASE advise Dr. Coe !!
Thank You !!
ChristinaReply
Fredric Coe, MDon August 21, 2018 at 1:46 pm
Hi Christina, Indeed, prevention should begin right away especially for a stone that is 50% phosphate. You will need a physician and also serum and 24 hour urine testing. As for nutrition, Jill Harris is ideal and works on the web. Do not delay. Regards, Fred Coe
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Francison August 30, 2018 at 5:30 pm
I just had kidney stone attack and am adjusting my diet. I mainly read drink a lot of fluids, my question in bottled water, do they have a lot of sodium? will if effect more stones? and can you recommend a brand with less sodium or free of…Thank you.
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Fredric Coe, MDon September 5, 2018 at 8:28 pm
Hi Francis, the label will tell you how much sodium water contains. Some have none, others a lot. Choose the ones with none. Regards, Fred Coe
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REEMAon October 19, 2018 at 9:20 am
Hi,
I have 2 kidney stones,6 and 7 mm size and despite medicines prescribed by the doc, to my misery, after 10 days of treatments i still have the 2 stones placed inthe same place.
Get pain every now and then when i move too much. My question is what should I do now? do I need to operate? Or can I just leave them there and through diet etc it will find its way out? Also, I am still trying to figure out what i cannot eat anymore, come docs told me i have to elimante cheese from my diet. My stones ar Calcium oxalate.
Hope to get an answer fromyou.
Thanks,
Reema.Reply
Fredric Coe, MDon October 22, 2018 at 7:22 pm
Hi Reema, I gather the stones are in the ureters and passing, thence the pain. Your urologist has to decide when it is safe to let things pass and when to operate. I would be sure he knows how much pain you are having. As for prevention, take a look here at one of my more favorite articles. Regards, Fred Coe
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Howieon November 4, 2018 at 10:31 am
Is there any negative effect from Vitamin K 2, or K 1 taken for Bone health, and Calcium stone formation?
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Fredric Coe, MDon November 8, 2018 at 4:23 am
Hi Howiem, I know of no studies about this. SOrry, Fred Coe
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Martin Eugene Murphyon December 11, 2018 at 2:04 pm
I have a lot of kidney stones that measure 2mm or less, already passing some larger more painful 4mm. I come from an organic farm where we eat a lot of spinach, potatoes, and nuts that are high in oxalates.
I have changed my diet and eat more citrus such as oranges, lemon in my water, etc. and found that it has helped reduce my stones (after my last CT scan) and now I have a much better urine flow.
It would be to our benefit to keep the food oxalate chart in the kitchen to remind us of what works and what is bad for us.
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Fredric Coe, MDon December 21, 2018 at 1:18 pm
Hi Martin, Assume nothing. Get the stones analysed and be sure they are calcium oxalate. Get 24 hour urine testing and fasting morning bloods to be sure you know what is causing stones. Changing diet without testing is never a good idea. Regards, Fred Coe
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Anne L. Danahyon March 24, 2019 at 4:12 pm
Dr. Coe,
Thank you so much for your articles and advice. As a result, I am able to have intellingent conversations with my doctors and come up with a mutually satisfactory treatment plan. My nephrologit refers to you as “my doctor in Chicago”.
We agreed that I will follow the diet recommended here and in 2 months have another 24 hour urine test.
Anne DanahyReply
Jacqueline Tuttonon April 25, 2019 at 7:21 pm
Dr Coe,
My urologist says I have a lot of stones, how can I find out what kind of stones I have?
I have had 2 extreme painful episodes, but to my knowledge no stone appeared.
In the meantime should I follow your diet plan?
Thank you most sincerely!Reply
Fredric L Coeon April 28, 2019 at 1:01 pm
Hi Jacqueline, Your urologist can at least exclude uric acid stones from the HU of radiographic density. I presume the stones are calcium based.The diet plan is for people who have been fully evaluated for all causes of stones, so be sure and do this. If you have ‘idiopathic’ calcium stones, treatment does best begin with diet, and if that is not enough meds are added to the diet. Regards, Fred Coe
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Lee Enyearton May 14, 2019 at 11:49 am
I appreciate your efforts to educate kidney stone patients with evidence-based data.
I have the following questions:
1. Does the recommendation for 1000 to 1,200 mg of diet calcium daily include calcium supplement tablets?
2. Are calcium citrate tablets the best choice for supplemental calcium?
3. How much supplemental calcium citrate can be taken daily without causing more harm than good?
4. Should supplemental calcium intake be monitored with blood and/or urine calcium tests?
ThanksReply
Fredric L Coeon May 17, 2019 at 4:12 pm
Hi Lee, It can, but food sources are probably superior: slow release, taste better. If you use calcium supplements always take them with your larger meals – slower absorption, nutrient to be sure your bones are interested in the calcium (I suspect this matters, not studied it), and will lower oxalate absorption from food – a lot. Calcium citrate may be better – less urine pH rise than from carbonate, but no data I have seen. The daily intake of 1000 to 1200 is ideal, so one uses supplements to supplement what food provides. Since you are a stone former 24 hour urines are needed before prevention, to guide it, and over the years to be sure you know what is happening. So if you add calcium, measure – of course. Regards, Fred Coe
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sylvie tabon October 8, 2019 at 2:14 pm
Hi Dr. Coe:
I am confused myself too. My diet included sliced muzzarella and sweets, I am not going to lie to you. I need to replace all those since I cut them off completely last week when I ended up at the emergency room in terrible pain.
I need something as a snack that can replace all this, also what kind of breads I can have.I don’t have insurance or primary doc, so your help here will be much appreciated.
Thanks a lot!!@
Sylvie
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Fredric L Coeon October 8, 2019 at 6:19 pm
Hi Sylvia, this is in answer to both questions. The diet you need is this one. Sugar is hard to stop, and I had my own problems stopping it. But no one needs it, so you can feel perfectly safe is just letting it go. Since money is a problem right now your best bet is to follow the kidney stone diet, drink a lot, and try to get insured so you can have a physician to guide your care. Regards, Fred Coe
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Mark Reeseon August 6, 2019 at 5:27 pm
Is there a simplified summary of what to do, i.e which Potassium Citrate to buy and how much and the diet? This is very academic 🙂
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jharrison February 13, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Hi Mark,
May I suggest The Kidney Stone Prevention Course. I bring all this information together in a set of videos of education and also offer one month of Q and A group calls to answer your specific questions. It has helped many stone sufferers really understand how to lower kidney stone risk. Find the link here: kidneystonediet.com
Best, JillReply
David Talboton April 26, 2021 at 5:06 pm
My urologist surmises that my five kidney stones episodes over 30 years are uric due to my very recent 24-hour Litholink report of 5.57 24 hour urine pH, 35 year experience of ileostomy/colectomy, and low (1.71 liter) volume.
My urine citrate level was 26 mg/day. I am an otherwise healthy 75 year old male.Currently prescribed daily are .4mg Tamulosin, 100mg allopurinol, sodium bicarbonate 1300mg, and Theralith XR (pyridoxine hydrochloride 30mg and potassium citrate 400mg daily. I also take both Vitamin D and B12 daily and pantoprazole 20 mg, the latter for nearly 30 years. I follow a very low meat – high vegetable diet and drink 50 – 60 ounces of water daily.
Does this make sense, particularly the Theralogix product?
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Fredric L Coe, MDon April 27, 2021 at 7:31 am
Hi David, Ileostomy with uric acid stones will not yield to diet – it requires sufficient alkali to raise urine pH well above 6. Because ileostomy losses are sodium alkali the ideal supplement is oral sodium bicarbonate but the dose needs to be a lot higher- 40-60 mEq/day usually. Two OTC sodium bicarbonate tablets, 10 grain size, provide about 12 mEq so 2 tablets 4 to 5 times a day are usually required. You can get urine pH test paper and determine your progress but do a 24 hour urine when you think things are right to get the day average. The allopurinol will not benefit uric acid stones in this setting, the Theralith is futile. The low meat diet unnecessary for the uric acid stones. Regards, Fred Coe
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William kapitoon April 25, 2020 at 4:02 pm
I have a family history of ulcers. Taken in calcium gives me extreme pain sometimes,
So your calcium intake increases my stomach
Pains so your diet does not help me it just adds to my pain.Reply
Fredric L Coe, MDon April 26, 2020 at 1:48 pm
Hi William, Usually high calcium foods like milk soothe ulcers. Calcium supplements are antacids and used for ulcer. So I am surprised that calcium sources worsen things. Perhaps your personal physician can help with this apparent anomaly. Regards, Fred Coe
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Dr. Caryl Murchisonon March 14, 2021 at 12:17 pm
Is she taking Calcium citrate??? That could irritate her stomach but Calcium carbonate (Tums) not likely too as you point out, Dr. Coe. I was taking Ca citrate because the calcium is better absorbed as a supplement , but had pyrosis from it. When I switched to Tums ( calcium carbonate) my stomach distress resolved.
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A. Matulichon September 22, 2021 at 11:04 pm
Practical question. Suppose I am eating a meal that I know contains, say, 100 mg of oxalic acid. I consume sugar-free (stevia-extract sweetened) lemonade before, during, and after the meal, total about 750 ml of lemonade corresponding to that meal. Also I eat a 250 mg calcium supplement with the food. The supplement is advertised as “bio-available” 250 mg calcium citrate with a proportional amount of magnesium (125 mg) per tablet.
Now, how much of that 100 mg of oxalate in my food is “canceled” by the lemonade and calcium supplement? By that I mean, how much have I reduced the oxalate impact on my kidneys?
I have been doing this for every meal for the past couple of months since my surgery. I’ve been making a lot of stevia-sweetened lemonade, and not yet tired of it; I drink up to 2 liters of it most days, plus other fluids. I take one of the 250 mg calcium tablets with each meal (even the low-oxalate meals), and end up eating 3 or 4 of them a day, in addition to whatever calcium may be naturally in the food. I have wondered how much benefit I’m getting form the lemonade and calcium supplement in terms of reduction of oxalate impact on my kidneys.
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jharrison October 3, 2021 at 6:51 pm
Hi A.
Calcium supplements when taken in excess can increase your risk of stones- you only need 1000 mg/day. You would need an urine collection to see where your oxalate levels are. We cannot give you a one to one ratio on calcium and oxalate as everyone absorbs foods and pills differently. I tell my patients to stay to 100 mg/ox a day and get your calcium needs met by food and drink.
Best, JillReply
Geoon November 10, 2021 at 11:07 am
Question on carbs from breads/crackers/pretzels/cereals. Even though they have a low amount of added sugars per the labels do they raise urine calcium or stone risk if I’m keeping in the proper range of added sugars? I eat the lower sodium varieties but I do have a lot of carbs a day from these and wonder if these simple white carbs are okay as long as the added sugars don’t go over the allowable amount.
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Fredric L Coe, MDon November 13, 2021 at 11:54 am
Hi Geo, Only refined sugar has been proven to raise urine calcium. Starches indeed digest to glucose, but the pace is slow compared to sugar itself. In general starches do not correlate with stone disease except, of course, via obesity which is a stone risk factor. Regards, Fred Coe
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Kurton February 1, 2023 at 4:41 pm
Dr. Coe,
The reference to sulfur under the Moderate Protein Intake section caught my attention. I take 7g of methylsulfanylmethane (MSM) 5 days a week. I began taking MSM to see if it would help relieve my spine pain (no effect) and also to possible counter glutathione depletion from therapeutic use of acetaminophen. There are also many other health benefits, from what I’ve read, from taking MSM.
I read a book and the author cautioned against taking MSM if you have kidney disease. Can taking MSM increase the risk of kidney stones? I’ve searched the Internet and I’ve not been able to find anything about MSM and kidney disease.
I believe I’m currently experiencing my third kidney stone, second in less than 4 years. I’m dumbfounded about why I’m experiencing another one in such a short period of time.
I have been eating more dark chocolate, nuts, and legumes over the last 2 years than I used to. However, reading through some of your posts today, you seem to think diet doesn’t really have an impact on kidney stone formation. Or did I misunderstand what you wrote?
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Fredric Coe, MDon February 3, 2023 at 5:48 pm
Hi Kurt, A PubMed review of the name of the compound and restricting to humans and to meta-analyses found this as most recent of four articles: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29018060/. This compound had effects on osteoarthritis and other joint pains of limited significance. A search for “methylsulfanylmethane AND kidney stones” found no matching articles. I found 35 trials of the material mostly concerning arthritis. Since you are a stone former, I suggest getting evaluated for causes.As for diet and stone prevention, the article you have posted on links to and reviews evidence for benefits in stone prevention, and I use diet as my first step in stone prevention. Regards, Fred Coe
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Manishon May 5, 2023 at 7:43 am
Thanks for sharing informative article.
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Fredric Coe, MDon May 6, 2023 at 2:39 pm
Thank you, Fred
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Laurie Meredithon August 28, 2024 at 5:16 am
Hi Dr,
Newly diagnosed with 5mm kidney stone… Kidney specialist initially stated , we’ll test in 2 months… If you have any problems go to ER.
Its apparently high up in the left side. My question is , Have you heard of Castor Oil packs to the area getting rid of stones? Not sure what to do next… Is it possible to pass that size ?
Thank you for what info you can giveReply
Dr Fredric Coeon September 7, 2024 at 8:48 pm
Hi Laurie, 5 mm is reasonable to pass. As for castor oil I have no knowledge. If the stone is not obstructing, or causing pain, bleeding or infection, one can wait. You should pursue prevention against more. Regards, Fred Coe
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Tom Son October 19, 2024 at 2:30 pm
Stevia appears to be an oxalate source. Chart indicated 50 to 100 mG per packet. Forgot link, sorry. I started consuming stevia a few years ago.
Personal case, I was diagnosed with stones in left kidney, mass found by chance on right kidney. Mass removed surgically. Path report, chromophobe renal cell carcinoma, stage 1, 14 mm, clear surgical margins. 98% chance that it’s gone forever, or 5 yr, I forget.
I think the stones saved my life! Feel extremely lucky.
Now having a bit of cheese, maybe an ounce of cheddar, before an evening drink with brandy, lemon, stevia.
Hope to get 24 hr urine started at urology recheck.
Tom SReply
Dr Fredric Coeon November 18, 2024 at 11:09 pm
Hi Tom, Stevia plant has oxalate. Stevia synthetic has none. Best, Fred Coe
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